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Nsaba Buturo |
THE recent press conference by masked homosexuals calling for recognition has provoked a strong response from religious groups. Alfred Wasike talked to the Minister for Ethics and Integrity, James Nsaba Buturo.
What is the government’s position on homosexuality?
Under the laws of Uganda homosexuality is unnatural and therefore illegal. Any one caught in the act is liable to life imprisonment. It is also important to add that homosexuality is totally unhealthy.
Why are people calling press conferences and demanding acceptance? Why now?
The truth is that apologists of this vice have been working hard, penetrating our society, going to schools and other institutions of learning. We suspect that they feel that it is about time they became more open than they have been.
Are they targetting CHOGM and the related publicity?
We think it is partly to do with the forthcoming Commonwealth summit and their feeling is that the Government and the country are now vulnerable to external pressure. What a miscalculation! There is no way our laws can be changed on account of the expectations of the international community.
How serious is homosexuality in Uganda?
It is serious to the extent that we know they are pumping money into our society. But on the issue of numbers, it is very small. But if we were to leave it, many of our people would become victims of these temptations.
For the first time we have seen a consistent pattern of publication of articles, especially in the print media and our interpretation of that is this is their effort to soften the public and make homosexuality acceptable in Uganda. That is an indication that they are intensifying their effort to have this vice spread in our society.
Do you think the media has been infiltrated as well?
No doubt and we have evidence of that. We are doing more to find out the magnitude of that infiltration. If we get firm evidence, we will not hesitate to deal with those we think are part of the conspiracy. But at the moment our laws do not address the critical issue of the promotion of homosexuality. They don’t point out that promotion is a crime nor do they say that if someone came to you and said he is gay or she is lesbian, that in itself does not constitute a crime. You have to be caught in the act.
How do you intend to get those involved in the acts?
That is why we are interested in having catalogues of people we think are involved in perpetuating the vice of homosexuality. We are also considering revising the laws. Even now as we speak a prominent radio presenter and someone called Victor are busy. So the homosexuals are working through the electronic and print media.
The recent press conference in Kampala shows that they took advantage of the weakness of the law. We are now considering changing the law so that promotion itself becomes a crime. I have a meeting with the Attorney General and the Minister of Internal Affairs this week. We want to look at it critically and also find other ways of making a statement that in so far as our society is concerned, this matter is reprehensible. The argument that others are doing it so we should also be open, quite frankly, is nonsense.
What about the argument that it is one of their fundamental human rights?
Of course that is their other argument that someone should feel free to do what they choose. Well, clearly, then people will start sleeping with animals, dogs and of course commit bestiality, which is another crime, and then they will quote human rights issues. Human rights must have a limit and it is part of a society to decide what its values are and sticking to those values strictly.
What do you say about accountability in Pentecostal churches? What is the Government’s position since some people feel certain pastors are fleecing their flock?
This issue of rights, as you pointed out must be put in context. There is no right that is limitless. The Government’s responsibility is to care for, defend and protect the interests of Ugandans. So we are interested in finding out where there is no accountability. But I must point out that there is accountability in some churches and none in others. That is why the policy proposal, which we are almost finalising emphasises accountability.
Accountability is not a matter of faith, so the Government cannot be accused of interfering in the work of the churches. We want structures of governance that are well established so that people can enjoy their freedom to worship, but also be protected in case there are abuses like the ones you are talking about.
Who should the church and other religious leaders be accountable to? The NGO Board or the people who faithfully give tithes and offerings?
The issue of accountability should be left to the congregation. We have seen this work very well in the older churches like the Church of Uganda and the Catholic Church. They do so regularly and we think it is the right way. We also think that it is not right for churches or religious organisations which are concentrating on matters of faith to be treated like ordinary NGOs. There was a time when that was necessary. That explains the law that we have today. But it is about time we rethink.
What kind of rethink are you talking about?
The ethics and integrity ministry is responsible for matters to do with religion. So it is among our proposals that churches and other religious organisations directly deal with my ministry. But these are proposals we will discuss in due course. Otherwise, it is important that the Government respect religious institutions because they are doing commendable work in the country. We serve the same constituency therefore, each side should make it easier for the other to operate without friction.
What about members of congregations who feel that they are giving more than they are getting out of their churches or other religious organisation? Any redress for that type of people?
(Laughs) These are matters of faith. If you belong to a religious group, it is really a choice. That is not an area the Government can enter.
What about the electric gadgets that some pastors are alleged to be using to simulate miracles?
It looks like this was not a properly researched position by whoever originated that story. I don’t believe that is true. I think it was hyped up by people who don’t value religious organisations. They took advantage of that story and also of the mistakes or crimes committed by individuals who may be pastors. The impression now is that pastors or religious leaders are not to be trusted. That is not correct and we should not encourage such stories.
Is it because you are a member of a Pentecostal church?
This is common sense and that’s how it should be. If you are to go by the stories which somebody originates for different motives, you then end up in chaos. It is strictly to do with what is true, what builds a society and faith is a very important issue here because it deals with honesty, it deals with matters of good governance and we cannot afford to discourage our people from being religious. Obviously it is a matter of choice, but there are principles that build a nation like ours and we need them now.
Published on: Saturday, 25th August, 2007
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